Interview with Russian thinker and political theorist Aleksandr Dugin on Russia-US relations
Interview with Russian thinker and political theorist Aleksandr Dugin on Russia-US relations
The Teori Dergisi, which is published in Türkiye, conducted a comprehensive interview with Russian thinker and political theorist Aleksandr Dugin on Russia-US relations.
The interview, which addressed many important issues, especially the relations between Trump and Putin and the Ukraine issue, is still relevant.
We are publishing the entire interview conducted by UWI writer and political scientist Onur Sinan Güzaltan in English. The subheadings belong to us.
Firstly, you have many statements which are supporting Trump, even before the elections and even before after. Why exactly you are supporting Trump?
First of all, we need to understand what Trump is… Not only as a political figure but as well as political, ideological tendence. Trump is symbol is Trumpism. And Trumpism is kind of ideology. What are the main features of this ideology? This ideology is opposite to liberal, left liberal globalism that ruled over the West and all humanity during decades.
So that was not just the political ideology of the US Democratic Party but as well it was something like conventional wisdom, something evidence. That was ideology with his principles; The principe of collective progressivism of individual identity of human, liberation of all kind of collective identity and promotion of WOKE culture, globalism, destruction of traditional identities, nation states. That was anti tradition. This liberal progressist ideology was the ideology of the main ideological opponents of Donald Trump. Trumpism is alternative ideology. Trump is against anti tradition and for tradition. He is against progressivism and for conservative. He is against gender politics and existence of two genders, man and women. He is against globalization and for nationalism. Trumpism represents the alternative ideology to globalism.
And because I’m sworn enemy of open society of George Soros, of these globalists and left liberalist, I support Trump…
I support a person or movement that coexists with what I think is good, fair and right.
I support Trump because he fights against whose which I’m fighting also during all my life.
“Trump’s victory is my victory…”
Can we say that you have the same ideology as Trump?
We can say yes. I’m in favor of traditional values and against anti tradition. Trump is exactly in same position. He is for traditional values against anti traditional values. In that we coincide totally. But when it comes to what we mean with traditional values, there are some differences. Because from my point of view, traditional values need to be affirmed on the basis of our Orthodox Christian culture. I recognize the right of other people and other religions to do the same, to defend their own religion, Islamic, Hindu or Chinese traditional values. In this sense, Trump fits the general picture with his Anglo-Saxon and Protestant traditional values. I don’t know if Trump will give others the right to defend their own values.
Logically, Trump should respect this right because he has abandoned the claim that American values are global.
That is his main statement. He should respect our preservation of traditional values even if they conflict with her Anglo-Saxon line. You can defend your traditions, and I can defend mine. Trump needs to respect this situation. We will see Trump’s approach to this issue more clearly after his meeting with Putin.
Generally speaking, I’m a big fan of the American conservative revolution and Trump.
I see many common points with Trumpist around him. Not all of them but with considerable part of them. Some of them I know personally,
I think his victory is my victory. His fight, his war against liberal globalist is my war. How could I be neutral on that or just observe from distance… That’s my life, the values and principles of my own life. I followed what was happening in the US. I have clearly chosen my camp, and I will stay loyal to it.
“Main agenda: Ending the US-Russia War”
What are your expectations from the summit expected to be held between Trump and Putin in Saudi Arabia? What topics do you expect to be covered in the meeting?
I can say that Ukraine will not be the primary issue in the Trump and Putin meeting.
Of course, they will talk about Ukraine, but this will not be the main topic.
Trump and Putin are going the discuss the World Order not less…
We have reached a state of nuclear war with the previous American administration.
Now Putin and Trump need to decide what to do about this issue.
How to deescalate our relations…That’s the first topic.
Biden and his administration did everything to start a war between Russia and the West. Ukraine was just one of the arguments they used here. Now Putin and Trump need to end this war. Ukraine is only one of the secondary topics here.
Secondly, we need to understand how Putin and Trump see the future configuration and the world architecture.
It’s clear that Trump came to Washington with a completely new vision of the world.
Trump wants to make Canada the 51st state and annex Greenland. Their views on Western Europe are completely different. He has his own plans to compete with China, against BRICS… On the other hand, he supports Netanyahu and the Greater Israel Project.
I believe that Putin and Trump can reach some common points.
Some points may be completely unacceptable to us, while others may be unacceptable to Trump but once more, Ukraine is the last topic to discuss. Ukraine is just one of the issues to be discussed between Trump and Putin.
The reason why Ukraine and the European Union were not invited to this meeting is that it will be held between major powers. Russia and the USA will discuss their bilateral relations.
This meeting will take place between two completely sovereign and independent forces. Both are global decision makers.
Europe as such is not a global decision-maker. It is just a puppet of the global elites who were influential in Washington in the past.
Trump is now fighting against the globalist elites. The European Union must stop talking about Zelensky, the bloody clown who tethers his sovereignty to Europe.
In summary, sovereign leaders will talk about serious issues and they do not need to be disturbed by those who are not involved in the matter. One of the third or fourth topics of the meeting will be the Ukraine issue.
We could not except easy solution for Ukraine neither for other issues on global issues.
War between two nuclear power is already happening and first of all we have to stop this war.
So, the priority issue will not be Ukraine?
No. When nuclear powers are confronting, that is the war. Inside or outside of Ukraine no matter. Main thing is to stop the war between US and Russia. Priority is to stop this war; Ukrainian war is secondary. Ukraine is not a subject, it is not souverain, it is tentacle of octopus…We have to talk with octopus itself.
What about Europe?
Does what you mentioned mean a new Yalta Agreement between Russia and the USA? What will be the situation of Europe in such an agreement? Will we witness government changes in Europe in the coming period?
I think we have a common vision for Europe with the United States. Trump will overthrow the governments in Europe that are extensions of the globalist he fights in Washington. Macron, Scholz, Merz, Starmer…
These men are all linked to the globalists Trump is fighting in Washington, so it makes no sense for Trump to leave them in charge of Europe. Maybe Trump is going to dismantle European Union. Putin’s view of Europe is no different from Trump’s.
Neither Trump nor Putin wants a globalist Europe.
It is very interesting; we have a totally common vision about Europe. We must change the regimes in Europe. Not as pro-Russian or pro-US as in the past. There is no versus…
Russia and America should make regime change operations in Europe together: Dismantle the European Union as a globalist construction or restructure it.
Now you see that Musk is supporting AFD and Russia is also in favor of AFD…
Me and my friend Konstantin Malofeev invited AFD leaders to Russia in 2014. We have good relations with them. They are not pro-Russian; they are pro-Germany and defending their own country. We are supporting them and now, the US is supporting them as well.
Same for Macron, we are supporting Marine le Pen. Marion le Pen, from the same family, was invited to the White House to attend Trump’s oath ceremony.
We are against the current Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Keir Starmer. British globalists incited war against us. We hate those in MI6. Elon Musk is running a massive campaign supporting Nigel Farage against them.
Our vision on Europe and European Union governance coincides with Trump’s.
We are in favor of a sovereign and independent Europe. Modern Europe is perverted and degenerate.
Russia-US relations and the Middle East
The Middle East is another region where the USA and Russia are active. With the fall of Bashar Assad in Syria, a huge security gap has been created in the region. What kind of outcome do you expect from the meeting between Putin and Trump regarding the Middle East?
Although the visions of Trump and Putin overlap in Europe, the situations are different regarding the Middle East.
Although Trump unconditionally supports Netanyahu and the Greater Israel Project, there are different thoughts on this issue among Trumpists. Trumpists such as John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs have objections to support for Israel.
Putin is not committed to the Greater Israel Project and wants peace. Putin takes into account the views of the Arab side on this issue.
As for Syria, Mr. Erdogan made a huge mistake on this issue and supported the anti-Assad revolution. Russia is trying to establish diplomatic relations with the new Syrian administration. But I think you are right in general; the region is at the point of explosion after Assad’s liquidation. I believe that we will soon witness new wars in the Middle East.
Russia’s relations with Muslim countries, especially Türkiye and Iran, will continue, and this is not an issue to discuss with Trump.
There is a difficult situation. It is worth noting that his support for Israel is not a matter of life for Trump. It’s a matter of secondary importance. No one can predict how the talks between Trump and Putin on this issue will end. Putin is open to some exchange, but he will not betray her friends and allies at the expense of normalizing relations with the United States.
We are faced with a new situation. In the past, everything was very clear, the global West was attacking us, our friends and allies.
Now the situation is in change, we need to separate one cause from the other, one region from the other. And pay more attention, we have entered to the details of all case…Europe, Middle East etc… We need to reconsider the global territory of the world, new balance of power.
There is no more collective west. There is Trump and the globalist west. They are in contradiction. Their geopolitical interests, strategies, tools, form of technical realizations of their plans are different.
Putin and Trump should discuss all that…The new architecture…
I agree with the comparison with Yalta, maybe there will be something like that…
Great Powers should find their limits, zones of influence, their rules, norms of new reality.
Putin and Trump going to create the principals of new reality to shape this new reality. This meeting is extremely important.
Trump and multipolarity
On the other hand, we are in very different conditions than in 1945, when Yalta was signed. The world is multipolar, there are many rising powers, especially China and India. The USA and Russia do not have the forces to make decisions for the entire world.
In this regard, there are evaluations that Trump is following a strategy to isolate China by normalizing relations with Russia. What do you think about this?
Yes, I think he has such a strategy. He is of the opinion that Russia is not an enemy of the Trumpist USA and wants to normalize relations.
He is against multipolarity because he thinks it is in China’s interest.
Trump sees China as his primary rival in the global arena. On the other hand, he also has a negative view towards the Islamic world.
I don’t think Putin could abandon our multipolar strategy and betray friends and allies who supported us in the difficult situation. Maybe Trump sees this as a matter of negotiation.
Putin will want to preserve multipolarity while normalizing relations with the West…And looking for how to promote multipolarity not against the West but with including it.
Finally, Trump also in favor of multipolarity but he tried to limit and marginalize the importance of China, to exclude maybe the Shia world also…
And he wants to preserve dollar as the global currency. That is his vision, he has his version of multipolarity.
Putin’s multipolarity is different. It is based on our alliance with China and our good relations with Iran and with Islamic world. Putin and Trump’s common denominator is Europe. They both want to destroy the global elites in Europe.
On the other hand, Trump and Putin agree on good relations with India. There are disagreements about China and the Islamic world.
So let us speak and think. It is not working like that; you give this that, and in exchange I gave you that…
That is complex situation. I think first of all Trump and Putin should define the shape, how to combine, how to relate between each other these two visions of multipolarity.
So, there is American Trumpist multipolarity, they call it the great power order…
And our understanding of multipolarity, include much more peaceful and I would say and friendly, it is not about competition, much more the Chinese win-win strategy. We are not going to abandon or exchange that vision for some positive points from US.
First of all, lets deescalate the situation and after that I think very long process will start for the mutual adaptation of our respective vision of what is the real nature of the multipolarity…
So, this is not a Yalta, this is a different kind of agreement. On the end of the war and the shape to be given to the new world, we are not living in bipolar world. There should be China, India, there should be a representative of the independent and souverain Islamic world, Africa, Latin America and, when Europe finishes with their globalist-liberal dictatorship, Europe could join these poles… These poles should find a common solution to the future of the world.
Last question… with all this going on, how do you see the future of BRICS?
BRICS will continue to exist. BRICS is a form of multipolarity that accepts all kinds of poles.
Civilizations that have sovereignty and civilizations that are on their way to having sovereignty can be part of BRICS. We can’t abandon BRICS, but we can reshape it.
Perhaps the United Nations should be abandoned. It is just an institution established according to old geopolitical conditions.
BRICS reflects multipolarity and there is no reason for either Russia or China, India and other states to abandon it.
Trump may feel frustrated about BRICS because Trump sees BRICS as a tool of his main rival, China. From Trump’s perspective, China is integrating other states through BRICS and accelerating the development of multipolarity
Putin’s view on BRICS is completely different. According to Putin, BRICS is not a bloc dominated by China. However, it is a peaceful formation that reflects multipolarity and can include Westerners. The West can become a member of BRICS instead of sabotaging it.
Trump’s West is different from Biden’s West. The USA is no longer a monopole, but it is one of the poles.
Marco Rubio recently accepted, recognized that we are living in multipolar world, that’s a very important testimony on the side of US officials. Trump has already accepted multipolarity, but perhaps the meaning he gives to multipolarity is different. However, the Biden and Obama teams completely rejected multipolarity. Therefore, Trump’s acceptance of multipolarity is a very important step.
How to bring together different approaches to multipolarity, especially those of Putin and Trump, that is an interesting question.
International balances of power should be reshaped based on multipolarity.
The USA, the main actor of unipolarity, has now accepted that the world is multipolar.
It is obvious, natural that they would like to have multipolarity that fix their interests.
And in this new world, the globalist European Union is an archaic organization.
Although the Western camp has collapsed, they are trying to maintain unipolarity. If they don’t change their government of globalist elites, we will do it for them.
This time, we are not against the USA on this issue, but we are together.